Date   

LTN information

Luke Pearson
 

Hi everyone
Just for your information ℹ️ I saw the first picture on the railings of Alexandra Park School and the second one was tucked in between the railings, so I was just able to take it out and take a photo of it.
From Luke





Sent from Luke Pearson's IPhone


Re: CCC monthly meeting 21 November agenda

seymour susan
 

Sorry I am otherwise committed this evening. I hope you have a good meeting.
Best wishes

Susan Seymour
07733227022





On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 at 13:59, Ema Arvati via groups.io <emanuela.arvati=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
Dear all,


Please find below the agenda and log in details for our monthly meeting Monday the 21st November at 19.30.

1) Introductions

2) Minutes of the October meeting to be approved https://camdencyclists.org.uk/2022/10/ccc-meeting-minutes-17-october-2022/

3) Matters arising from the minutes

4) Topics for quarterly meeting with London Living Streets and Camden (5 Dec)

5) Review of Camden Transport Strategy progress report and 3 year forward program

6) Talk from Geoff Richman (American School in London)

7) Carla Francome talk

8) AoB


Log in details:


ID 966-2634-1261, password 656179, link: https://zoom.us/j/96626341261?pwd=MkpKb1gvLzdIeFpNbndGd05zeU1XZz09


Minutes: Ema


The Tory councillors in Hampstead have sent out a request for a "feedback form" on the Haverstock Hill cycle lanes so it would be good to show us our support for them.
There is also a new Commonplace on it from Camden itself



Kind Regards

Ema





Re: CCC monthly meeting 21 November agenda - talk by Carla Francome

Jean Dollimore
 

I have heard so much about Carla Francome as an Active Travel campaigner and as a documentary maker, and see from her Tweets (@carlafrancome) that she is someone with an eye for other things such as street art and has a great sense of fun.

I am sending this email now as Carla is hidden at No 7 in the agenda and I wouldn’t want anyone who might be interested to miss her talk. 

Here’s her profile on Linked in


Hope to see you on Zoom on Monday at 7:30 pm

Jean


On 17 Nov 2022, at 13:59, Ema Arvati via groups.io <emanuela.arvati@...> wrote:

Dear all,

Please find below the agenda and log in details for our monthly meeting Monday the 21st November at 19.30.
1) Introductions
2) Minutes of the October meeting to be approved https://camdencyclists.org.uk/2022/10/ccc-meeting-minutes-17-october-2022/
3) Matters arising from the minutes
4) Topics for quarterly meeting with London Living Streets and Camden (5 Dec)
5)  Review of Camden Transport Strategy progress report and 3 year forward program
6) Talk from Geoff Richman (American School in London)
7) Carla Francome talk
8) AoB

Log in details:


Minutes: Ema

The Tory councillors in Hampstead have sent out a request for a "feedback form" on the Haverstock Hill cycle lanes so it would be good to show us our support for them.
There is also a new Commonplace on it from Camden itself


Kind Regards
Ema





CCC monthly meeting 21 November agenda

Ema Arvati
 

Dear all,


Please find below the agenda and log in details for our monthly meeting Monday the 21st November at 19.30.

1) Introductions

2) Minutes of the October meeting to be approved https://camdencyclists.org.uk/2022/10/ccc-meeting-minutes-17-october-2022/

3) Matters arising from the minutes

4) Topics for quarterly meeting with London Living Streets and Camden (5 Dec)

5) Review of Camden Transport Strategy progress report and 3 year forward program

6) Talk from Geoff Richman (American School in London)

7) Carla Francome talk

8) AoB


Log in details:


ID 966-2634-1261, password 656179, link: https://zoom.us/j/96626341261?pwd=MkpKb1gvLzdIeFpNbndGd05zeU1XZz09


Minutes: Ema


The Tory councillors in Hampstead have sent out a request for a "feedback form" on the Haverstock Hill cycle lanes so it would be good to show us our support for them.
There is also a new Commonplace on it from Camden itself



Kind Regards

Ema





Re: LTN haringey

Angela Hobsbaum
 

Thanks for your support, Luke and all you Camden Cyclists! 
Angela.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 at 17:53, Luke Pearson via groups.io <simondiane.luke=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Angela I was gathering support and sympathy and support for you guys in Haringey I support these LTN schemes 100%

Sent from Luke Pearson's IPhone   

On 14 Nov 2022, at 5:45 pm, Angela Hobsbaum <angela.hobsbaum@...> wrote:


Yes, I assume you're all supportive; my response was a bit tongue-in-cheek, as we would prefer to ignore the antis, not give them the oxygen of recognition... 
Angela.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 at 17:33, Jean Dollimore <jean@...> wrote:
Angela,

Of course Camden Cyclists are pro LTN and we’re full of admiration for Haringey’s having installed three large new LTNs.

Best wishes

Jean





On 14 Nov 2022, at 17:26, Angela Hobsbaum <angela.hobsbaum@...> wrote:

Thanks Luke; were you publicising the protests in sympathy with the anti-LTNers or to garner sympathy for us Haringey cyclists?

Angela.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 at 17:22, Luke Pearson via groups.io <simondiane.luke=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Hi everyone
There are some big protests happening in haringey this evening against the the LTNS.

Sent from Luke Pearson's IPhone   







Re: LTN haringey

Luke Pearson
 

Angela I was gathering support and sympathy and support for you guys in Haringey I support these LTN schemes 100%

Sent from Luke Pearson's IPhone   

On 14 Nov 2022, at 5:45 pm, Angela Hobsbaum <angela.hobsbaum@...> wrote:


Yes, I assume you're all supportive; my response was a bit tongue-in-cheek, as we would prefer to ignore the antis, not give them the oxygen of recognition... 
Angela.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 at 17:33, Jean Dollimore <jean@...> wrote:
Angela,

Of course Camden Cyclists are pro LTN and we’re full of admiration for Haringey’s having installed three large new LTNs.

Best wishes

Jean





On 14 Nov 2022, at 17:26, Angela Hobsbaum <angela.hobsbaum@...> wrote:

Thanks Luke; were you publicising the protests in sympathy with the anti-LTNers or to garner sympathy for us Haringey cyclists?

Angela.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 at 17:22, Luke Pearson via groups.io <simondiane.luke=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Hi everyone
There are some big protests happening in haringey this evening against the the LTNS.

Sent from Luke Pearson's IPhone   







Re: LTN haringey

Angela Hobsbaum
 

Yes, I assume you're all supportive; my response was a bit tongue-in-cheek, as we would prefer to ignore the antis, not give them the oxygen of recognition... 
Angela.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 at 17:33, Jean Dollimore <jean@...> wrote:
Angela,

Of course Camden Cyclists are pro LTN and we’re full of admiration for Haringey’s having installed three large new LTNs.

Best wishes

Jean





On 14 Nov 2022, at 17:26, Angela Hobsbaum <angela.hobsbaum@...> wrote:

Thanks Luke; were you publicising the protests in sympathy with the anti-LTNers or to garner sympathy for us Haringey cyclists?

Angela.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 at 17:22, Luke Pearson via groups.io <simondiane.luke=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Hi everyone
There are some big protests happening in haringey this evening against the the LTNS.

Sent from Luke Pearson's IPhone   







Re: LTN haringey

Jean Dollimore
 

Angela,

Of course Camden Cyclists are pro LTN and we’re full of admiration for Haringey’s having installed three large new LTNs.

Best wishes

Jean





On 14 Nov 2022, at 17:26, Angela Hobsbaum <angela.hobsbaum@...> wrote:

Thanks Luke; were you publicising the protests in sympathy with the anti-LTNers or to garner sympathy for us Haringey cyclists?

Angela.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 at 17:22, Luke Pearson via groups.io <simondiane.luke=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Hi everyone
There are some big protests happening in haringey this evening against the the LTNS.

Sent from Luke Pearson's IPhone   







Re: LTN haringey

Angela Hobsbaum
 

Thanks Luke; were you publicising the protests in sympathy with the anti-LTNers or to garner sympathy for us Haringey cyclists?

Angela.

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 at 17:22, Luke Pearson via groups.io <simondiane.luke=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Hi everyone
There are some big protests happening in haringey this evening against the the LTNS.

Sent from Luke Pearson's IPhone   






LTN haringey

Luke Pearson
 

Hi everyone
There are some big protests happening in haringey this evening against the the LTNS.

Sent from Luke Pearson's IPhone


Re: Bloomsbury Way and Vernon Place Gas Works

James Brander
 

Apologies folks: a failure of geography.
As Simon points out, I should have stated Park Hill St, not Upper Park. So, the problem section is between England's Lane and Park Hill Rd. I think it's quite a ratrun at present.
This afternoon I kept to the main carriageway, kept my speed up, and had no bother from a long queue waiting on the uphill side to turn right.
Hmmm.
Best,
James Brander 

On Fri, 4 Nov 2022, 09:12 Simon Pearson, <simondiane.luke26@...> wrote:
Thanks James

But I’m having difficulty understanding it. Do you mean Park Hill Road?  Upper Park Road is up towards Belsize Tube Station.

Left hooks are always a weak point of cycle lanes.

Regards 

Simon 

Sent from Simon’s iPhone

On 4 Nov 2022, at 08:36, James Brander <jbrander47@...> wrote:


A word of warning about using the section of cycle lane down Haverstock Hill, between England's Lane and Upper Park Rd. Vehicles now jump the lights to turn right onto the hill, and turn immediately left into Upper Park, left-hooking anyone using the bike lane. Encouraged by this, vehicles ascending Haverstock then cut across turning right into Upper Park. I had to elicit the help of a skip driver (!) To make my way through this yesterday. It might be better to keep out of the bike lane from England's Lane junction, at least till after Upper Park.
Interesting this should follow the Panorama thing.
James Brander 

On Thu, 3 Nov 2022, 11:49 Berwyn Rutherford, <berwynr@...> wrote:
Shocking Panorama last night. Cyclists verses cars. Berwyn

Sent from Outlook for iOS

From: main@camdencyclists.groups.io <main@camdencyclists.groups.io> on behalf of John Chamberlain <john@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 11:44:13 AM
To: main@camdencyclists.groups.io <main@camdencyclists.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [camdencyclists] Bloomsbury Way and Vernon Place Gas Works
 

That sign is there for cyclists who choose to avoid the short diversion via Southampton Place and Barter Street. There just isn't room to continue on Bloomsbury Way, which is the reason for the diversion. But there may be an issue for cyclists who approach from Bury Place in either direction - another diversion sign may be needed. I'll follow up.


John Chamberlain

 

On 03/11/22 11:33, James Brander wrote:
Hallo,
The gas main looks like a replacement for Nordstream.
I note that Cadent's generosity extends only to Bury Place, where the inevitable 'cyclists dismount and use pavement' appears.
Best,
James Brander 


On Mon, 31 Oct 2022, 17:00 John Chamberlain, <john@...> wrote:

Those of you who have cycled along Vernon Place and Bloomsbury Way (continuation of Theobalds Road) recently will be aware of the major works to replace the gas main. This has resulted in a lane being closed and major diversions. Cadent have been able to keep a westbound cycle-only lane open with a short diversion via a contraflow on Southampton Place and then via Barter Street, to avoid having to go round the Holborn Gyratory with the buses and motor vehicles. Most cyclists are using this, which is good, though some are using the footway (not popular).

Starting tomorrow, works will begin at the junction with Southampton Row and though the road layout will change the cycle signals installed earlier this year will still operate as designed, so the junction should remain safe. But please be careful! Email me with any issues and I'll take it up with Camden.

--

 

John Chamberlain

 

Camden Cycling Campaign

 

W: camdencyclists.org.uk

E: john@...

 


Re: About the safety of cyclists at junctions e.g. on Haverstock Hill

Tony Raven
 

I don’t think most drivers know about the new Highway Code and it almost certainly won’t change the behaviours of the worst offenders.   They don’t even enforce laws that have been in places for ages such as ASLs and 20mph speed limits so guidelines in the HC, forget them.   Until punishments fit the crimes, and with juries typically 12 drivers that’s unlikely, then things will continue as they are.

-- 
Tony

Apologies for any typos; sent from my iPad

On 4 Nov 2022, at 07:58, Jean Dollimore <jean@...> wrote:



The new Highway Code should help drivers to modify their behaviour with respect to people cycling:

Rule H3 - Rule for drivers and motorcyclists

You should not cut across cyclists, horse riders or horse drawn vehicles going ahead when you are turning into or out of a junction or changing direction or lane, just as you would not turn across the path of another motor vehicle. This applies whether they are using a cycle lane, a cycle track, or riding ahead on the road and you should give way to them.

Do not turn at a junction if to do so would cause the cyclist, horse rider or horse drawn vehicle going straight ahead to stop or swerve.

You should stop and wait for a safe gap in the flow of cyclists if necessary. This includes when cyclists are:

  • approaching, passing or moving off from a junction
  • moving past or waiting alongside stationary or slow-moving traffic
  • travelling around a roundabout

That plus the bright blue paint across all of the junctions e.g. mentioned in this post on our website


Jean

On 4 Nov 2022, at 09:12, Simon Pearson <simondiane.luke26@...> wrote:

Thanks James

But I’m having difficulty understanding it. Do you mean Park Hill Road?  Upper Park Road is up towards Belsize Tube Station.

Left hooks are always a weak point of cycle lanes.

Regards 

Simon 

Sent from Simon’s iPhone

On 4 Nov 2022, at 08:36, James Brander <jbrander47@...> wrote:


A word of warning about using the section of cycle lane down Haverstock Hill, between England's Lane and Upper Park Rd. Vehicles now jump the lights to turn right onto the hill, and turn immediately left into Upper Park, left-hooking anyone using the bike lane. Encouraged by this, vehicles ascending Haverstock then cut across turning right into Upper Park. I had to elicit the help of a skip driver (!) To make my way through this yesterday. It might be better to keep out of the bike lane from England's Lane junction, at least till after Upper Park.
Interesting this should follow the Panorama thing.
James Brander 

On Thu, 3 Nov 2022, 11:49 Berwyn Rutherford, <berwynr@...> wrote:
Shocking Panorama last night. Cyclists verses cars. Berwyn

Sent from Outlook for iOS

From: main@camdencyclists.groups.io <main@camdencyclists.groups.io> on behalf of John Chamberlain <john@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 11:44:13 AM
To: main@camdencyclists.groups.io <main@camdencyclists.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [camdencyclists] Bloomsbury Way and Vernon Place Gas Works
 

That sign is there for cyclists who choose to avoid the short diversion via Southampton Place and Barter Street. There just isn't room to continue on Bloomsbury Way, which is the reason for the diversion. But there may be an issue for cyclists who approach from Bury Place in either direction - another diversion sign may be needed. I'll follow up.


John Chamberlain

 
On 03/11/22 11:33, James Brander wrote:
Hallo,
The gas main looks like a replacement for Nordstream.
I note that Cadent's generosity extends only to Bury Place, where the inevitable 'cyclists dismount and use pavement' appears.
Best,
James Brander 


On Mon, 31 Oct 2022, 17:00 John Chamberlain, <john@...> wrote:

Those of you who have cycled along Vernon Place and Bloomsbury Way (continuation of Theobalds Road) recently will be aware of the major works to replace the gas main. This has resulted in a lane being closed and major diversions. Cadent have been able to keep a westbound cycle-only lane open with a short diversion via a contraflow on Southampton Place and then via Barter Street, to avoid having to go round the Holborn Gyratory with the buses and motor vehicles. Most cyclists are using this, which is good, though some are using the footway (not popular).

Starting tomorrow, works will begin at the junction with Southampton Row and though the road layout will change the cycle signals installed earlier this year will still operate as designed, so the junction should remain safe. But please be careful! Email me with any issues and I'll take it up with Camden.

--
 

John Chamberlain

 

Camden Cycling Campaign

 

W: camdencyclists.org.uk

E: john@...

 




Re: About the safety of cyclists at junctions e.g. on Haverstock Hill

Jean Dollimore
 

The new Highway Code should help drivers to modify their behaviour with respect to people cycling:

Rule H3 - Rule for drivers and motorcyclists

You should not cut across cyclists, horse riders or horse drawn vehicles going ahead when you are turning into or out of a junction or changing direction or lane, just as you would not turn across the path of another motor vehicle. This applies whether they are using a cycle lane, a cycle track, or riding ahead on the road and you should give way to them.

Do not turn at a junction if to do so would cause the cyclist, horse rider or horse drawn vehicle going straight ahead to stop or swerve.

You should stop and wait for a safe gap in the flow of cyclists if necessary. This includes when cyclists are:

  • approaching, passing or moving off from a junction
  • moving past or waiting alongside stationary or slow-moving traffic
  • travelling around a roundabout

That plus the bright blue paint across all of the junctions e.g. mentioned in this post on our website


Jean

On 4 Nov 2022, at 09:12, Simon Pearson <simondiane.luke26@...> wrote:

Thanks James

But I’m having difficulty understanding it. Do you mean Park Hill Road?  Upper Park Road is up towards Belsize Tube Station.

Left hooks are always a weak point of cycle lanes.

Regards 

Simon 

Sent from Simon’s iPhone

On 4 Nov 2022, at 08:36, James Brander <jbrander47@...> wrote:


A word of warning about using the section of cycle lane down Haverstock Hill, between England's Lane and Upper Park Rd. Vehicles now jump the lights to turn right onto the hill, and turn immediately left into Upper Park, left-hooking anyone using the bike lane. Encouraged by this, vehicles ascending Haverstock then cut across turning right into Upper Park. I had to elicit the help of a skip driver (!) To make my way through this yesterday. It might be better to keep out of the bike lane from England's Lane junction, at least till after Upper Park.
Interesting this should follow the Panorama thing.
James Brander 

On Thu, 3 Nov 2022, 11:49 Berwyn Rutherford, <berwynr@...> wrote:
Shocking Panorama last night. Cyclists verses cars. Berwyn

Sent from Outlook for iOS

From: main@camdencyclists.groups.io <main@camdencyclists.groups.io> on behalf of John Chamberlain <john@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 11:44:13 AM
To: main@camdencyclists.groups.io <main@camdencyclists.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [camdencyclists] Bloomsbury Way and Vernon Place Gas Works
 

That sign is there for cyclists who choose to avoid the short diversion via Southampton Place and Barter Street. There just isn't room to continue on Bloomsbury Way, which is the reason for the diversion. But there may be an issue for cyclists who approach from Bury Place in either direction - another diversion sign may be needed. I'll follow up.


John Chamberlain

 
On 03/11/22 11:33, James Brander wrote:
Hallo,
The gas main looks like a replacement for Nordstream.
I note that Cadent's generosity extends only to Bury Place, where the inevitable 'cyclists dismount and use pavement' appears.
Best,
James Brander 


On Mon, 31 Oct 2022, 17:00 John Chamberlain, <john@...> wrote:

Those of you who have cycled along Vernon Place and Bloomsbury Way (continuation of Theobalds Road) recently will be aware of the major works to replace the gas main. This has resulted in a lane being closed and major diversions. Cadent have been able to keep a westbound cycle-only lane open with a short diversion via a contraflow on Southampton Place and then via Barter Street, to avoid having to go round the Holborn Gyratory with the buses and motor vehicles. Most cyclists are using this, which is good, though some are using the footway (not popular).

Starting tomorrow, works will begin at the junction with Southampton Row and though the road layout will change the cycle signals installed earlier this year will still operate as designed, so the junction should remain safe. But please be careful! Email me with any issues and I'll take it up with Camden.

--
 

John Chamberlain

 

Camden Cycling Campaign

 

W: camdencyclists.org.uk

E: john@...

 




Re: Bloomsbury Way and Vernon Place Gas Works

Simon Pearson
 

Thanks James

But I’m having difficulty understanding it. Do you mean Park Hill Road?  Upper Park Road is up towards Belsize Tube Station.

Left hooks are always a weak point of cycle lanes.

Regards 

Simon 

Sent from Simon’s iPhone

On 4 Nov 2022, at 08:36, James Brander <jbrander47@...> wrote:


A word of warning about using the section of cycle lane down Haverstock Hill, between England's Lane and Upper Park Rd. Vehicles now jump the lights to turn right onto the hill, and turn immediately left into Upper Park, left-hooking anyone using the bike lane. Encouraged by this, vehicles ascending Haverstock then cut across turning right into Upper Park. I had to elicit the help of a skip driver (!) To make my way through this yesterday. It might be better to keep out of the bike lane from England's Lane junction, at least till after Upper Park.
Interesting this should follow the Panorama thing.
James Brander 

On Thu, 3 Nov 2022, 11:49 Berwyn Rutherford, <berwynr@...> wrote:
Shocking Panorama last night. Cyclists verses cars. Berwyn

Sent from Outlook for iOS

From: main@camdencyclists.groups.io <main@camdencyclists.groups.io> on behalf of John Chamberlain <john@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 11:44:13 AM
To: main@camdencyclists.groups.io <main@camdencyclists.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [camdencyclists] Bloomsbury Way and Vernon Place Gas Works
 

That sign is there for cyclists who choose to avoid the short diversion via Southampton Place and Barter Street. There just isn't room to continue on Bloomsbury Way, which is the reason for the diversion. But there may be an issue for cyclists who approach from Bury Place in either direction - another diversion sign may be needed. I'll follow up.


John Chamberlain

 

On 03/11/22 11:33, James Brander wrote:
Hallo,
The gas main looks like a replacement for Nordstream.
I note that Cadent's generosity extends only to Bury Place, where the inevitable 'cyclists dismount and use pavement' appears.
Best,
James Brander 


On Mon, 31 Oct 2022, 17:00 John Chamberlain, <john@...> wrote:

Those of you who have cycled along Vernon Place and Bloomsbury Way (continuation of Theobalds Road) recently will be aware of the major works to replace the gas main. This has resulted in a lane being closed and major diversions. Cadent have been able to keep a westbound cycle-only lane open with a short diversion via a contraflow on Southampton Place and then via Barter Street, to avoid having to go round the Holborn Gyratory with the buses and motor vehicles. Most cyclists are using this, which is good, though some are using the footway (not popular).

Starting tomorrow, works will begin at the junction with Southampton Row and though the road layout will change the cycle signals installed earlier this year will still operate as designed, so the junction should remain safe. But please be careful! Email me with any issues and I'll take it up with Camden.

--

 

John Chamberlain

 

Camden Cycling Campaign

 

W: camdencyclists.org.uk

E: john@...

 


Re: Bloomsbury Way and Vernon Place Gas Works

James Brander
 

A word of warning about using the section of cycle lane down Haverstock Hill, between England's Lane and Upper Park Rd. Vehicles now jump the lights to turn right onto the hill, and turn immediately left into Upper Park, left-hooking anyone using the bike lane. Encouraged by this, vehicles ascending Haverstock then cut across turning right into Upper Park. I had to elicit the help of a skip driver (!) To make my way through this yesterday. It might be better to keep out of the bike lane from England's Lane junction, at least till after Upper Park.
Interesting this should follow the Panorama thing.
James Brander 

On Thu, 3 Nov 2022, 11:49 Berwyn Rutherford, <berwynr@...> wrote:
Shocking Panorama last night. Cyclists verses cars. Berwyn

Sent from Outlook for iOS

From: main@camdencyclists.groups.io <main@camdencyclists.groups.io> on behalf of John Chamberlain <john@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 11:44:13 AM
To: main@camdencyclists.groups.io <main@camdencyclists.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [camdencyclists] Bloomsbury Way and Vernon Place Gas Works
 

That sign is there for cyclists who choose to avoid the short diversion via Southampton Place and Barter Street. There just isn't room to continue on Bloomsbury Way, which is the reason for the diversion. But there may be an issue for cyclists who approach from Bury Place in either direction - another diversion sign may be needed. I'll follow up.


John Chamberlain

 

On 03/11/22 11:33, James Brander wrote:
Hallo,
The gas main looks like a replacement for Nordstream.
I note that Cadent's generosity extends only to Bury Place, where the inevitable 'cyclists dismount and use pavement' appears.
Best,
James Brander 


On Mon, 31 Oct 2022, 17:00 John Chamberlain, <john@...> wrote:

Those of you who have cycled along Vernon Place and Bloomsbury Way (continuation of Theobalds Road) recently will be aware of the major works to replace the gas main. This has resulted in a lane being closed and major diversions. Cadent have been able to keep a westbound cycle-only lane open with a short diversion via a contraflow on Southampton Place and then via Barter Street, to avoid having to go round the Holborn Gyratory with the buses and motor vehicles. Most cyclists are using this, which is good, though some are using the footway (not popular).

Starting tomorrow, works will begin at the junction with Southampton Row and though the road layout will change the cycle signals installed earlier this year will still operate as designed, so the junction should remain safe. But please be careful! Email me with any issues and I'll take it up with Camden.

--

 

John Chamberlain

 

Camden Cycling Campaign

 

W: camdencyclists.org.uk

E: john@...

 


Re: Panorama program Wed 2nd Nov Road Rage: Cars v Bikes

Berwyn Rutherford
 

Agree Ron Liddel is appalling. They should have asked those Kensington drivers about the traffic jams and resulting car fumes if all those cyclists were in cars!!
Berwyn

Sent from Outlook for iOS

From: main@camdencyclists.groups.io <main@camdencyclists.groups.io> on behalf of Tony Raven <tony@...>
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 9:52:38 PM
To: main@camdencyclists.groups.io <main@camdencyclists.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [camdencyclists] Panorama program Wed 2nd Nov Road Rage: Cars v Bikes
 
Panorama has never been a serious programme IMO.  You can’t be if you have to fill a slot every week with conflict or malfeasance.  You have to create it.    Not watched it for decades for that very reason..

-- 
Tony

Apologies for any typos; sent from my iPad

On 3 Nov 2022, at 16:05, Jean Dollimore <jean@...> wrote:

I agree with Berwyn. 

Although the program allowed brief interviews with Clare Rogers from LCC and Duncan Dollimore from Cycling UK, neither was given enough time to change the tone of the program.

And that tone was very adversarial … why should it be assumed that people that drive are in some sort of war with people who cycle? After all, many people do both.
And the majority of the drivers I encounter in streets in Camden seem very sympathetic and helpful.

The BBC should be ashamed… Panorama is supposed to be a serious program that presents a useful analysis of things it investigates. But instead they gave so much time to Rod Liddle … 

Etc etc

Jean




On 3 Nov 2022, at 11:49, Berwyn Rutherford <berwynr@...> wrote:

Shocking Panorama last night. Cyclists verses cars. Berwyn

Sent from Outlook for iOS



Re: Panorama program Wed 2nd Nov Road Rage: Cars v Bikes

Tony Raven
 

Panorama has never been a serious programme IMO.  You can’t be if you have to fill a slot every week with conflict or malfeasance.  You have to create it.    Not watched it for decades for that very reason..

-- 
Tony

Apologies for any typos; sent from my iPad

On 3 Nov 2022, at 16:05, Jean Dollimore <jean@...> wrote:

I agree with Berwyn. 

Although the program allowed brief interviews with Clare Rogers from LCC and Duncan Dollimore from Cycling UK, neither was given enough time to change the tone of the program.

And that tone was very adversarial … why should it be assumed that people that drive are in some sort of war with people who cycle? After all, many people do both.
And the majority of the drivers I encounter in streets in Camden seem very sympathetic and helpful.

The BBC should be ashamed… Panorama is supposed to be a serious program that presents a useful analysis of things it investigates. But instead they gave so much time to Rod Liddle … 

Etc etc

Jean




On 3 Nov 2022, at 11:49, Berwyn Rutherford <berwynr@...> wrote:

Shocking Panorama last night. Cyclists verses cars. Berwyn

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Re: Panorama program Wed 2nd Nov Road Rage: Cars v Bikes

Jean Dollimore
 

I agree with Berwyn. 

Although the program allowed brief interviews with Clare Rogers from LCC and Duncan Dollimore from Cycling UK, neither was given enough time to change the tone of the program.

And that tone was very adversarial … why should it be assumed that people that drive are in some sort of war with people who cycle? After all, many people do both.
And the majority of the drivers I encounter in streets in Camden seem very sympathetic and helpful.

The BBC should be ashamed… Panorama is supposed to be a serious program that presents a useful analysis of things it investigates. But instead they gave so much time to Rod Liddle … 

Etc etc

Jean




On 3 Nov 2022, at 11:49, Berwyn Rutherford <berwynr@...> wrote:

Shocking Panorama last night. Cyclists verses cars. Berwyn

Sent from Outlook for iOS



Re: Holborn Consultation

Jean Dollimore
 

But things are not going to anything like as bad as in the scenario that James has described:
first - the southbound cycle lane where people wait to enter the ‘reservoir’ is to be 2m wide.
second - James' 15 secs theory is based on the current situation where traffic on Procter Street that’s turning left into High Holborn only has to stop for a pedestrian crossing 
the video makes it clear that all of the motor traffic on Procter Street stops at the line at the back of the reservoir (e.g. while westbound motor traffic moves on High Holborn)
and during this time, cyclists in the lane can enter the reservoir and go to one of the two front stop lines (for east and west bound cycles) 
when the westbound motor traffic on High Holborn gets a red signal two things happen before the Proctor St motor traffic can move forward
i. the westbound cycles on High Holborn get a green signal
ii. the cyclists at the two front stop lines (22 metres in front of the waiting motor vehicles) get a green signal
then when the motor traffic on Proctor Street gets a green signal it will be at least 22 metres and 5 seconds behind the cycles (in theory giving the latter time to get into the ASL at the junction with Kingsway.


I have attached an annotated fragment from the consultation drawing to illustrate the above points.

But the best way to understand is to have another look at Camden’s excellent video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnTXEMohwNs

Jean





On 3 Nov 2022, at 12:06, John Chamberlain <john@...> wrote:

James makes good points about the capacity - that is an area we had identified and will feature on our response. We have asked for details of the signal timings but it looks like they are available somewhere? Can take that offline.

 

John Chamberlain

 

Camden Cycling Campaign

 

W: camdencyclists.org.uk

E: john@...

 

On 03/11/22 11:54, James Brander wrote:
Hallo,
I am not totally behind these proposals for DrakeSt/Procter St, and shall say so to LBCamden.
Their scheme requires the removal of two bus lanes, three marked bus stops (one of which is used as a stand for the numbers 8 and 98), and a further marked bus stand. I was told in regard to South End Green that moving Bus Stands is well-nigh impossible.
The cycle time on the traffic signals at High Holborn is 2 minutes nominally, though SCOOT will adjust that at busy times.
Of that 120 secs, traffic turning east onto High Holborn is held for only 15 secs, which would be the time available to clear the proposed cycle gate.
Up to 500 cyclists per hour use Theobald's Rd, of whom probably 400 come down Drake/Procter, almost all of whom will be turning west into High Holborn. Thus, there could easily be 20 cyclists trying to use the gate from a 1.5m wide cycle lane.
In other words, the proposed lane and gate don't have sufficient capacity.
My own approach to that intersection is to use the bus lane on the west side of Drake/Procter, and then use the ASL box ahead of the westbound traffic at the High Holborn lights to take up an appropriate position. The westbound traffic gets green for only 40 secs in the 120 sec cycle, so there's lots of time.
I think my approach (which other people also use) could form the basis of LBCamden's proposals, and provide more cycle capacity without upsetting TFL buses so much.
Good luck,
James Brander 

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022, 06:32 richendawalford, <richenda@...> wrote:

Done, thanks for alerting us to this.

 
 

From: main@camdencyclists.groups.io <main@camdencyclists.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Chamberlain via groups.io
Sent: 27 October 2022 18:45
To: CCC Mailing List <camdencyclists@groups.io>
Subject: [camdencyclists] Holborn Consultation

 

Camden are consulting on further changes in the Holborn area to make it safer for cycling. You can see a summary with links to the consultation on our website at https://camdencyclists.org.uk/2022/10/holborn-junctions/

As an interim step, pending the major changes proposed in the Holborn area plan, which was approved and then frozen by TfL during the cut-backs, we think this is a good scheme and encourage people to support it. You can respond here:

https://consultations.wearecamden.org/supporting-communities/high-holborn-drake-street-proctor-street/

We'll put in a response on behalf of Camden Cyclists and will incorporate any comments received on this discussion group.

--

 
 

John Chamberlain

 

Camden Cycling Campaign

 

W: camdencyclists.org.uk

E: john@...

 


Re: Holborn Consultation

John Chamberlain
 

James makes good points about the capacity - that is an area we had identified and will feature on our response. We have asked for details of the signal timings but it looks like they are available somewhere? Can take that offline.

 

John Chamberlain

 

Camden Cycling Campaign

 

W: camdencyclists.org.uk

E: john@...

 

On 03/11/22 11:54, James Brander wrote:

Hallo,
I am not totally behind these proposals for DrakeSt/Procter St, and shall say so to LBCamden.
Their scheme requires the removal of two bus lanes, three marked bus stops (one of which is used as a stand for the numbers 8 and 98), and a further marked bus stand. I was told in regard to South End Green that moving Bus Stands is well-nigh impossible.
The cycle time on the traffic signals at High Holborn is 2 minutes nominally, though SCOOT will adjust that at busy times.
Of that 120 secs, traffic turning east onto High Holborn is held for only 15 secs, which would be the time available to clear the proposed cycle gate.
Up to 500 cyclists per hour use Theobald's Rd, of whom probably 400 come down Drake/Procter, almost all of whom will be turning west into High Holborn. Thus, there could easily be 20 cyclists trying to use the gate from a 1.5m wide cycle lane.
In other words, the proposed lane and gate don't have sufficient capacity.
My own approach to that intersection is to use the bus lane on the west side of Drake/Procter, and then use the ASL box ahead of the westbound traffic at the High Holborn lights to take up an appropriate position. The westbound traffic gets green for only 40 secs in the 120 sec cycle, so there's lots of time.
I think my approach (which other people also use) could form the basis of LBCamden's proposals, and provide more cycle capacity without upsetting TFL buses so much.
Good luck,
James Brander 

On Fri, 28 Oct 2022, 06:32 richendawalford, <richenda@...> wrote:

Done, thanks for alerting us to this.

 

 

From: main@camdencyclists.groups.io <main@camdencyclists.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Chamberlain via groups.io
Sent: 27 October 2022 18:45
To: CCC Mailing List <camdencyclists@groups.io>
Subject: [camdencyclists] Holborn Consultation

 

Camden are consulting on further changes in the Holborn area to make it safer for cycling. You can see a summary with links to the consultation on our website at https://camdencyclists.org.uk/2022/10/holborn-junctions/

As an interim step, pending the major changes proposed in the Holborn area plan, which was approved and then frozen by TfL during the cut-backs, we think this is a good scheme and encourage people to support it. You can respond here:

https://consultations.wearecamden.org/supporting-communities/high-holborn-drake-street-proctor-street/

We'll put in a response on behalf of Camden Cyclists and will incorporate any comments received on this discussion group.

--

 

 

John Chamberlain

 

Camden Cycling Campaign

 

W: camdencyclists.org.uk

E: john@...

 

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